Considering United with financial wealth, dominated English football over the last three decades, I found it fitting to compare win ratio statistics.
since 1980 the mentioned clubs have been the most dominating in the old Division 1, now the Premier League. These are based on Div1/Prem games only.
Arsenal v United
Wins 19 Draws 19 Losses 26 Total 64
Chelsea v United
Wins 18 Draws 18 Losses 18 Total 54
Liverpool v United
Wins 16 Draws 20 Losses 29 Total 65
Everton v United
Wins 13 Draws 16 Losses 35 Total 64
Nottingham Forest v United (currently relegated club)
Wins 11 Draws 8 Losses 16 Total 35
Southampton v United (currently relegated club)
Wins 10 Draws 10 Losses 30 Total 50
Manchester City v United
Wins 8 Draws 16 Losses 22 Total 46
West Ham United v United (currently relegated club)
Wins 8 Draws 12 Losses 30 Total 50
Tottenham Hotspur v United
Wins 7 Draws 17 Losses 41 Total 65
Aston Villa v United
Wins 6 Draws 17 Losses 39 Total 62
Leeds United v United (currently relegated club)
Wins 6 Draws 13 Losses 14 Total 33
Middlesbrough v United (currently relegated club)
Wins 6 Draws 8 Losses 21 Total 35
Newcastle United v United
Wins 4 Draws 15 Losses 27 Total 46
Sunderland v United
Wins 4 Draws 10 Losses 19 Total 33
Blackburn Rovers v United
Wins 3 Draws 10 Losses 22 Total 35
Bolton Wanderers v United
Wins 3 Draws 5 Losses 20 Total 28
It just goes to show that respect has to go out to relegated clubs Middlesbrough, Leeds, West Ham, Southampton and Nottingham Forest.
The same can't be said for more established Bolton, Sunderland, Newcastle, Blackburn, Aston Villa and Tottenham with their disgraceful statistics against United.
We Manchester City manage to better those established with disgraceful statistics against United despite the fact they have enjoyed far more years at the top flight while we were fighting relegation after relegation, promotion after promotion up and down the English leagues.
ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ.....and the point of this pointless article is?
ReplyDeleteboohoo if I disappointed you but let me guess, you're a fan of one of the clubs with disgraceful statistics.
DeleteEither that or you're a rag with big bitter mouth and even bigger bitter chip on your shoulder.
For those who fail to understand like Anumptymous above, read the title first.
DeleteSo you're rating how good each club is based on their results against Manchester United? What about other clubs such as Chelsea, Liverpool, Arsenal? Or are you basically saying Utd are the benchmark? Or have I misread your stats? I find them quite confusing to be honest - Where is the losses / total games stat for each?
ReplyDeleteYes United are the bench mark being they are the most successful over the last three decades, If I went back further I would have had to use Liverpool as the benchmark.
DeleteThe whole point of this article is in the title of the article, is it that hard to understand.
The stats are to prove many facts, facts like there are clubs in lower leagues bigger than clubs in the Premier League.
Facts like clubs like Spurs and Newcastle have complete and utter disgraceful stats, proven by the fact Nottingham Forest, West Ham, Southampton and Manchester City have better stats against United despite being relegated to lower leagues.
When was the last time Spurs were relegated, Spurs have played United far more times than any of those relegated clubs and City.
If you want the losses and total games, reply and ill add them tomorrow sometime.
"The whole point of this article is in the title of the article, is it that hard to understand."
ReplyDeleteYes it is utterly confusing
tell me what exactly is confusing?
DeleteAre they not some of the biggest clubs in England?
Considering they are or were at some point dominating the top flight in the last 3 decades, you match stats against the best in those 3 decades to find out who is the worst of the best.
I hope that's helped.
and yes losses and totals would be good if you could add them
ReplyDeleteAdded as requested, may I remind also that these are stats based on last 3 decades of the top flight only.
DeleteThis does not include cup games or league games prior to 1980, considering United are the bench.
As you can see Chelsea seem to be the most successful, which proves all the money jibes towards Chelsea fans were and are ill founded.
Whilst the title is still confusing at least the addition of losses and totals makes the stats easier to understand now and puts things into better perspective so thanks for adding those.
DeleteI sincerely hope West Ham, Notts Forest and Leeds United make it back into the big time, in place of some of these pathetic clubs like Bolton, Newcastle, Sunderland and urrrm ill reserve judgement on Blackburn until after the game on 2nd April.
DeleteIll help you out, the bottom four clubs in my list would be the worst of the established Premier League. (worst of the best), best being the PL.
DeleteTheres a lot of comments claiming confusion which would simply lead me to believe your confusion is infact your unwillingness to see the truth based on fact.
ReplyDeleteThat half the Premier League clubs allow United to defeat them too easily, resulting in United walking the title with ease.
Most if not all of this seasons Premier League clubs have turned up against City to play out their skins, but when they turn up against United they park the bus in hope that they don't get spanked.
Do you know that Tottenham Hotspur have not beaten United in over 10 stinking years, but they can break the top four and go on a big run in the Champions League.
Even Manchester City has a better win ratio against United and spurs have spent far longer than us in Englands top league.
I have used statistics and fact to prove there are clubs who allow and help United to dominate, if any clubs deserve relegation its those clubs in place of those who were unfortunately relegated but deserve Premier League football.
I think your assessment that some clubs allow Utd to beat them is a little harsh. Plenty of lesser clubs actually seem to raise their game when playing United in the past
DeleteYes lesser clubs do take it to United unlike the established who don't raise their game against United but do against us, sometimes the truth is harsh and right now a lot of the Premier League are pathetic.
DeleteAll of a sudden the entire Premier League are United fans, the level of hate for us right now is utterly preposterous.
Not that we care anyway but there you go.
DeleteLove him or hate him Fergie would not leave a match without shaking his opposite number's hand, regardless of what had gone on. I think it's little things like that that are not helping public opinion for you guys.
DeleteEarlier in the season most pundits / managers were singing City's praises and thought they were going to take the league.
Recently City are stumbling, and it is coinciding with the same time of the season that United usually come on very strong (like they have done again this year in terms of results anyway). So now an increasing number of pundits / managers think United will take the title. Obviously a lot of it is just personal opinion of each individual and you have to learn not to take it too personally. After all the table and results do not lie in the long term.
People are pointing out that some of the things happening at City would not happen at United as Fergie won't tolerate certain things, and to be fair he does put his money where his mouth is and has moved top players on when he doesn't like what they do such as Becks, Jaap Stam etc. The players at United know who the boss is and they can like it or lump it. It doesn't seem to be quite the same at City presently, or Chelsea etc.
Your time may come, be it this year or another. But some of the players at City need to learn that a title is won over the course of an entire season and by being a team rather than a collection of talented individuals. When the going gets tough the tough get going. The going is getting tougher now for City but some of the characters are not getting going. I do wonder if Mancini can cut it when the pressure is on. I know folk can say he has won 3 titles at Inter but Italian football is a different game to EPL.
This is not an 'attack' on City though I suspect you might take it that way. It is just my own observations and opinions which you can choose to agree with or disagree with, but there is no need to resort to name calling etc if you disagree ;)
It's been pleasant to find a thread on here that has not been soured with insults.
And I just know you will hate Gary Neville but he wrote a good article today about mental toughness. A lot of it makes sense and it's worth a read regardless of your opinion of the author.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2123328/Titles-won-head-stage-season-Gary-Neville.html
cheers
Lmao hate Gary Neville, biggest understatement of the century, I hate the muppet that much that I refuse to read anything that comes from his big fat mouth.
DeleteIve heard all about United so called experience etc blah blah for 3 frigging decades so, what has all you have had to say here got to do with all the hate currently being bombarded at City.
This aint just Uniteds poxy fanbase, ex players, players and manager, Im talking Everton fans, Spurs fans, Bolton fans, Sunderland fans, Stoke fans almost the whole frigging league are acting like frigging obsessed psychopathic nut jobs.
Every single day for the past month there has been an unbelievable rise in hostility towards us, so much so that newspapers and websites are continuously flooded with articles on how this club and that club are going to derail Citys title hopes.
Not one article about how any clubs are going to try derail Uniteds title hopes, I have made my point that the league is a frigging joke.
I know Chelsea went through a similar scenario themselves but even they have joined in on the anti City act to date. Not even Chelsea went through this level of a hate campaign and our new found wealth is no excuse, tbh I couldn't care less about the hate, I'm just shocked that my own country can be so pathetic.
Let me give you another angle and bit of perspective.
DeleteAbout 2:57pm today I was taking a walk in my own country of birth, good old England (sarcasm) to have sunday dinner with my mother.
Minding my own business and enjoying the sun, halfway there in a City shirt my path crossed with an African guy and his fat female caucasian ticket into this country, he held his fingers up to form a cross and hissed like a snake (isnt that a KKK thing?), in his African acsent saying Manchester is red and calling me scum, lucky for him my job requires me to obey the laws of my country otherwise I would have kicked him into touch.
Thats the type of fan United attracts, low life free meal ticket wanting scum.
I guess jealousy at the seemingly limitless funds City have now might account partially for some other clubs' fans having a pop, but surely you can understand that? And you are the new Chelsea which might explain Chelsea fans being miffed, together with their season not going as well as they might have hoped.
DeleteI can understand it myself as to me and maybe others it felt like City thought (and were talking like) they had the right to be champions just because they have bought a lot of good players and had a good start, but that right has to be earned through consistent hard work and ideally principles. I'm not trying to redirect this discussion back to financial muscle but what has happened at City has actually made United (and everyone else) the underdog now and we know the Brits love an underdog ;)
That and the niggly behaviour of Mancini, Tevez and maybe one or two others. When you lose you should lose gracefully to keep the respect of the neutrals, or even the biased. Just my humble opinion.
I don't think it is hate that City are experiencing but more a loss of respect, which is something that partially happened to Chelsea under Mourinho as he rubbed people up the wrong way, although he at least backed his players and back room staff from what I recall, and was a bit more clued up on tactics.
Mancini is moaning about Balotteli and Dzeko but he bought them! and fans are moaning about results and how the opposition plays against them but that's all part of the game. You have to adapt to teams coming and parking the proverbial bus or getting physical etc.
I think your team seems to need some width. You have some decent enough wingers but they're not being used effectively, maybe because Silva had such a good start to the season but teams are learning how to play against that game plan now so you need some alternatives. If you're good enough it doesn't all come down to a dodgy decision here and there.
Most of that is a cop out and you know it making excuses for everyone, and to think all United fans ever go on about is how we get our excuses ready.
DeleteSorry but your explanations are so lame its a joke, United an under dog don't make me laugh. All of a sudden because we have the wealth of our club owner and a wealth of players, that gives anyone the right or good reason to hate us?
Show me one bit of evidence to prove City and our fans have been talking like we are champions, or that we deserve to be.
My money is on you failing big time.
Cmon read it! He is a good pundit and can offer valuable insight, and what he talks about in this article may well be relevant.
ReplyDeleteDon't cut your nose off to spite your face ;)
Here is a sample comment at the end of the article:
"Ok, an apology to Red nev.... as a player I despised you, as a columnist and pundit I have to say there are none better.. A real revelation, great article, my hat off to you.... A Spurs fan."
Lol sample comment from a Spurs fan, it holds very little for me. Spurs fans hate us as much as United fans if not more.
DeleteIll choose to spite my face.
Somehow I thought you might, as is your right. Shame though. I chose that comment not because he was a Spurs fan but because I thought you might identify with a fellow Nev hater.
DeleteAs for the dodgy fan well unfortunately all clubs have them. Do you think City don't?
Finally, I'm not making excuses for anyone. I think some of the City bashing is justified :) I was merely explaining some possible reasons for it.
Evidence eh?
"Newcastle and Stoke away will be our toughest games imo, though I see a full house and us winning every single game to lift title."
"So I am not one to count my chickens but with the football we are currently playing I don't see us dropping many points, our only question mark in the run in would be the United and Chelsea games still left to play. To be completely honest looking at their current form they instill absolute zero percent fear in me, the only way I could possibly see us blowing the title race now would be if we lost 3 or 4 of our most influential, important players to bookings and, or injuries."
"now we are back in business you're so much in debt that it would take a large group of super rich investors to save your backsides now and prevent us from consistantly knocking you off your perch."
"Like to think I am a realist, hope is not something I live with.
I believe we are good enough to win it and believe we are a better team than United or Spurs so I expect us to win it unless we get more nasty refereeing decisions."
[injuries]... "It seems this will be the rags top excuse if they fail to stop us from winning the Premier League title."
Should I quote the source of these?
First comment: Optimism simple as
DeleteSecond comment: Again optimism and justified considering we beat Chelsea, I believe I was the author of both these comments.
Third comment: sigh again I am the author and you seem to be a lazy and poor judge of character, again justified considering the down right pathetic decisions that have continuously gone against us. But then on what planet would any fickle United fan agree anyway.
Forth comment: yet another of my comments and you damn well know it would have been had you already blown it or did blow the title race.
And you call that, me thinking we deserve to be champions?, you are making excuses and I see right through you. Don't think for one second that you're any different from any new age rag, just because you can hold your cool and actually manage to hold a conversation outside the circle.
And I thought you were going to show us hard evidence of City fans claiming we deserve to be champions of England and Europe, that we are the best in the world and all that bush.
How about this one then?
Delete"we just want to be where we believe we deserve to be right now. At the top of English football and in Europe"
Get a grip of yourself, have you got nothing better to do with your time.
DeleteI believe our fans deserve to be in the top five of the Premier League, after everything we have been through this past 3 decades.
What exactly have you been through other than choosing to follow an already successful club, I could have made the same choice but then im not easy and City are the real club of Manchester.
Your club didnt get where they were without money and despite the myth you all believe that you earned it, we all know you didn't.
I did not say we deserved to win the title like you're trying to imply, im just saying we deserve a bit of success.
You rags wouldn't last 10 seconds in the lower leagues, you would all end up either jumping ship or slitting your wrist.
I've supported Man Utd since 76 so well before Ferguson's glory years. I was Gary Bailey when I played in goal, with an attempt at Joe Jordan's haircut!
DeleteAnd incidently your quote says nothing about top 5 - it says top as in top, #1. It's pretty much exactly the quote you asked me to provide right above it, almost word for word! I won't push the point further but you know that is true.
I don't take our recent dominance for granted, but it's enjoyable while it lasts, just as yours will be for you should it come
If it makes you feel better in your little bubble then continue to think I implied top as in the top, I know what I ment when I wrote it and you couldn't be more wrong.
DeleteYou're just clutching at straws because you have failed to find any evidence to prove your silly little accusation.
Yes I was a bit lazy with my comment hunting but hey c'mon it was Sunday evening and I have a life outside of the internet. I'll admit though I was surprised there were not more usable quotes in the previous posts I looked at. Reading through 8 or so previous posts in succession they just seemed to be obsessed with conspiracies, United and favouritism, which is obviously your bugbear. I think you have to admit to a little overconfidence though when things were going your way, but in my opinion that is not a bad thing.
ReplyDeletePersonally I would agree that Man United do seem to be one of the darlings of the media a bit but I think that is somewhat understandable because they do have principles and do stick to them and for a long period of time now they have played generally successful attacking exciting football, particularly domestically. Can you deny that? However I'd say Arsenal are above United in the media darlings stakes though (when they're doing well anyway).
If I get the time I'll look for some alternative quotes where City fans have been more obvious about their right to the title if you would like?
I'm not 100% sure what you mean where you say I am just making excuses and you see right through me - excuses for what?
You're right to feel optimistic about the future for City but why not concentrate on that rather than this unhealthy obsession (sorry I don't think you like that word but having read a bunch of posts in one go last night I can't think of an alternative word).
Your chaps definately need to improve their behaviour after a loss too to gain respect, and if you don't win the league this year then you will still have gained valuable experience about run ins at the top. Just got to make sure that experience is taken advantage of next time.
I genuinely think that it is etiquette etc, such as Mancini refusing a handshake etc that is turning some people off City. People don't like that sort of thing, myself included. You have to take it on the chin, be mentally strong and look forwards (which is somewhat the gist of Nev's article where he talks about his own shortcomings and how they affected him).
Appreciating the discussion anyway :)
My regular readers will remember this one, I always knew clubs help United win the league year in year out which is why I have loved seeing other clubs defy that power.
ReplyDeleteUnited could not win it without help, its as simple as that.
How fitting that their next game is against a club with one of the worst statistics against United in the Premier League.
DeleteThey're not excuses. They are reasons. There is nothing to excuse imo.
ReplyDeleteAnd yes success breeds expectation as you will come to see in the future. You've started to experience success and are now expecting to topple United in the near future.
Fair dos if you do and meantime fair dos to us if you don't and we retain the title :)
Now that De Gea is improving I think the squads are quite similar strength now with us having a bit more on the wings and you having a bit more in the centre. It's a good battle.
Ye piss poor reasons at that, You use the word expectation as a shroud for your clubs and fans decades of sheer and utter arrogance and contempt, one thing I am well aware won't spread amungst true Manchester City fans.
ReplyDeleteWe will pick up glory hunters along the way once we acheive something but the fact remains, we will never hold the level of arrogance and contempt reserved for fans like Uniteds and Real Madrids etc.
De Gea don't make me laugh, his eyesight is shot.
This season you have had far more luck than you usually get with help from referees and aid from other clubs.
Lets see if anyone turns up against United be it home or away, if not one club takes points off United until the end of the season you can thank them for winning the league and not your own club.
People talk about neutrality but its all a crock of shit, there is no such thing as a neutral because they always favour one more than the other.